An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

topic posted Wed, November 22, 2006 - 6:17 PM by  Unsubscribed
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I know I was wrong in insulting Narayana Maharaja and all the rest of the Gaudiya Math devotees, Godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada and Godnephews and the disciples who have left ISKCON and gone over to the Math. I am the most fallen of all living entities and lower than the straw in the street. I was only trying to defend the name of Srila Prabhupada and his movement but I went too far, I should not have blasphemed the devotees who are all senior to me.
Please forgive me.
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  • Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

    Thu, November 23, 2006 - 11:33 AM
    this is refreshing to hear. and pleasantly unexpected.
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      Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

      Thu, November 23, 2006 - 2:15 PM
      Tulasi has me under her thumb and I had to do it to get my friend back. I have tried to be friends with devotees of the Math before but somehow or other it always seems to backfire. I guess there is nothing wrong with them glorifying their gurus in front of me. And even within ISKCON everybody seems to think their guru is the best while disciples of other gurus might not. That is why they no longer have public guru pujas and things like they used to.
      I would like to be friends with all the Vaishnavas, maybe this will help me to figure out how. Maybe the best thing is for me to keep my distance, like I would with disciples of a guru in ISKCON I didn't particularly like and didn't want to offend. Because we all are serving Srila Prabhupada. In the same way all of us are serving Lord Caitanya. If I see things like this then it might be alright. No offense intended to anyone, either in ISKCON or out.
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        Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

        Thu, November 23, 2006 - 2:20 PM
        I did make friends with some devotees in India from the Math one time. I was told to go to a certain temple somewhere and they were very friendly to me. There was no animosity at all that I could detect, and no authorities around either. It worked out well, and I visited another temple or two in India come to think of it. The problem lies with the devotees who apparently seem to have rejected Srila Prabhupada's advice and the one's we think rejected his advice think he advised us differently than we understand. This is the problem.
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          Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

          Thu, November 23, 2006 - 2:29 PM
          To be more clear, an without trying to offend anyone, Srila Prabhupada said not to hear from his godbrothers, but some of these very godbrothers tell their disicples that Srila Prabhupada DID say we could go to them for spiritual advice, not just material advice. Who is there that can rectify the situation?
          One group says don't listen to the godbrothers in the Gaudiya Math, and the Gaudiya Math says DO listen to us! So when we hear devotees who have switched over to the Math telling us we were supposed to do this we tend to shut them out completely. Because Srila Prabhupada told his disciples that if his godbrothers said one thing different from what he told them they would be confused.
          Now why would the godbrothers be saying anything different in the first place? As followers of Srila Prabhupada naturally we feel it is because Srila Prabhupada is empowered to spread the movement around the world and his godbrothers weren't and they didn't help him when he asked so unless they help ISKCON instead of taking devotees away from it then it is hard to trust anybody. Don't they recognise Srila Prabhupada's unique position? Apparently not. So we're back to my guru is better than your guru again.
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            Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

            Thu, November 23, 2006 - 2:31 PM
            But I know I broke the ettiquite. The spiritual master's godbrothers should be seen as being on the same platform as the spiritual master and therefore not subject to our intruction.
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              Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

              Thu, November 23, 2006 - 5:16 PM
              I'm glad you are asking these questions. I will try to answer them as best I can since I have put myself out there, spontaneously, as a preacher sort. What I want to tell you, but I didn't want to say it before to avoid embarrassment is that we are all Gaudiya vaisnavas. Srila Prabhupada did nothing but glorify the Gaudiya vaisanava line, back to Lord Brahma and his creation of the universes. We really are, bhakta, we are Gaudiyas, especially ISCKON. They're the biggest Gaudiya vaisnavas of all, in the line of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, currently, and of course Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada. We are in the line of Rupa Goswami... we are! Srila Prabhupada and his eternal religion are. Who can dispute this? It's high. We made it to the Kali yuga to attain the highest goal of existence, better than moksa and even, aisvarya bhava. We can easily obtain unotajjovalla rasa, gopi bhava. This is what my Guru has told me. Thank you for asking.
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                Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

                Fri, November 24, 2006 - 8:47 AM
                It was written in Srila Prabhupadas biography that he told his sanyassis in confidence not to associate with his godbrothers. Although these remarks were taken grossly out of context, there was some truth behind it, as a mountain begins with a piece of blowing sand. Srila Prabhupada loved his godbrothers as his heart's treasure, and they loved him the same. Most of them knew for years that he was prophesized by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta to bring KC to the west, and they supported him. Still, when this became a reality, and he was over there doing it, some of them might have felt nervous about it. Srila Prabhupada made decisions to break some of the rules at times, small things like eating carrots. At one point he had even said he was willing to serve meat if he had to, anything to get people to follow. Some of the godbrothers disputed some issues, as they were extremely strict and aware of the downfalls that had happened in the past when vaisnavism became mixed with other things. With the passing of time, we see how Prabhupada was right to do what he did. He alone spread KC around the world. He wanted other Indians to come with him, and none came at that time. Another issue was the fact that some of the vaisnavas in the matha felt uncomfortable with the fact that Srila Prabhupada took the name of Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada.
                Bhakisiddhanta was guru of ALL at that time. He was their guru, whom they were in painful separation from, and they were also very strict, and they couldn't understand it. Srila Prabhupada was very brave to do what we did for us, and alone. It was his lila, the way it was suppossed to go.
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                  Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

                  Fri, November 24, 2006 - 9:14 AM
                  So, we see the truth in the fact that there were some issues. However, Srila Prabhupada did not say, "Don't ever see any of my godbrothers." If so, he wouldn't have been cultivating relaionships between his godbrothers and the western disciples the whole time he had them. They spent so much time in India with the godbrothers. I heard it straight from Kirtananda, Prabhupadas first sanyassi, last summer, that Srila Narayana was at his sanyassa ceremony and made Kirtananada's own danda. He knew Srila Narayana well back in the day.
                  We also can't put a blanket statement on the "godbrothers", as if they are some entity. If some American kids heard Srila Prabhupada frusterated with some Indian "godbrothers", and they, assuming all Indian godbrothers were the same, lumped them ALL together, that is not the fault of some of very advanced Indian devotees.
                  Srila Narayana Maharaja was possibly the closest of Srila Prabhupadas godbrothers. He used to send to America countless mrdangas and all kinds of goods from Indian, and he gave him so much support. There are so many letters showing demonstrating this. Srila Prabhupada wanted him to come to America, but Srila Narayana didn't come because he had made a commitment to his Guru to keep his math going over there. He had so many responsibilities, and he cared very much for all the indian disciples who counted on him. He was under the strict order of his Gurudeva not to go. Srila Narayana's diksa Gurudeva was Srila Prahupadas sanyassa Guru, Bhaktiprajnana Kesava, was omniscient, and he knew Srila Narayana was not to go west for twenty more years. Here in the west we may take the instrucitons of our Gurus lightly, but it was never like that for Srila Narayana or Srila Prabhupada. They obeyed all of it.


                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

                    Fri, November 24, 2006 - 9:26 AM
                    Who knows, maybe Srila Prabhupada did tell his American disciples not to associate with any of the Indian vaisnavas. I don't believe it, myself, considering the fact that he was always bringing them over to see them, but what if he did? Can we suppose for a moment that perhaps he just didn't want to bother the vaisnavas at the maths with the newbies? I'm not saying this is the truth, but I see it as a good possibility. I know that Srila Prabhupada told some of the older devotees at the maths, so many times, "I have made so many disciples, but I could not change them. They act like monkeys." When asked how they were doing he often said, "Well, they are most excellent at quarrelling." The Indians were nervous about the American kids. But when they saw them come to India, doing so much service and holding such lengthy kirtanas, they said, "We didn't think it could be done, but you did it." They were proud of Srila Prabhupada. Still, Prabhupada knew the Americans would have troubles in the future. He said this. He knew there would be power struggles and court battles etc. Do you think it's possible that he didn't want to involve his sweet old godbrothers in this? I think it's a good possibility. Srila Prabhupada may not have been omniscient his entire life, from back when he was struggling to try and keep a failing business etc. But by the time he dissappeared from us, he had become a pure, uttama adhikari vaisnava, all-knowing and at one with Radha and Krsna. He knew exactly how it was going to go down.
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                      Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

                      Fri, November 24, 2006 - 9:42 AM
                      It's silly, at this point, for any of us to hold on to the slandering that happened after Srila Prabhupada left the planet. For one thing, those who were doing the slandering have long since left the movement. Kirtananda has come back to us now, and he does nothing but glorify Srila Narayana up and down at this point. There is also another of the original sanyassis, who is back in Krsna consciousness, I forget his name, but he also comes to see Srila Narayana.
                      It's all pretty obvious. Who did Srila Prabhupada ask to perform his own samadhi ceremony? Srila Narayana. Who did he call to his bedside at the very end and talk to in a hushed tone that no one could hear for hours? Srila Narayana. They were weeping and talking about very high things together, just as they had done together for many, many years. No one was suprised.
                      Srila Narayana didn't get involved with any of the court matters or try to entice any of the American disciples to come to him or anything. He stayed out of the way for twenty years, until all the dust settled. Actually, the only time Srila Narayana got involved in a court matter was when they asked him to, he came to speak on behalf of the primary ISCKON devotees when some of Srila Prabhupada's family members were trying to seize ISCKON. He didn't want anything, just to serve the orders of his own Guru. He has also served the orders of his siksa Guru, Srila Prabhupada, to help his disciples in the west. Twenty years later, his time came, and as he has reached the stage of uttama-adhikara, a pure devotee, omniscient and at one with Radha and Krsna, Srila Narayana has revitalized the bhakti of thousands of Srila Prabhupada disciples.
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                        Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

                        Fri, November 24, 2006 - 9:57 AM
                        for more information see purebhakti.com/
                        Here you will find so many free books to download. For the whole scoop reguarding the relationship between Srila Narayana and Srila Prabhupada, look up OUR GURUS: ONE IN SIDDHANTA and MY SIKSA GURU AND PRIYA-BANDHU We owe it to ourselves and find out the truth. Krsna is very, very tricky. The lilas are tricky, and Krsna has installed so many filters to keep us away from the jewels until our bhakti reaches to unfathomable depths. Did you think Krsna was cheap? He gave us Srila Prabhupada on a platter, but don't think you've acheived self-realization yet. You gotta search and search and want it so bad that you'll do anything. Expect an obstacle course. Expect that ten minutes before Caitanya Mahaprabhu shows up on your street, someone will forewarn you, "There's a crazy guy in town. Watch out for that one!"
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                          Re: An apology to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother.

                          Fri, November 24, 2006 - 4:28 PM
                          I am just a dancing dog in the hands of a woman. So I have to accept what you say, everything except for two things. One is that Srila Prabhupada became a pure devotee at some point. I believe he was and is eternally liberated. The other was the thing about his godbrothers not thinking of anybody else as a guru so when Srila Prabhupada became one they weren't used to it? But that doesn't matter. They're used to it now.
                          Thanks for your lengthy explanations. I still plan on reading Bhaktivinode Thakur's book which your guru highly recommends but in keeping with my loyalties I won't read the purports by your guru. Maybe if somehow or other I see him someday and come to understand his glories the way you do things might change. But I have to say when I saw his followers I was very surprised how good they all looked. I forgot if he was there or not but I saw him at a Ratha Yatra one time or else maybe just his followers and they were all dressed in a first class way, and were all chanting in a circle. Maybe that is why I didn't see him. But I asked someone what is going on over there and they said,"Oh, they are followers of Narayana Maharaja." and being the loyal ISKCON follower that I am I thought,"Damn, he took away all those nice devotees!" but that could also be a compliment, that if he is such a pure devotee to attract all those followers then I might just be the fool who doesn't recognise him. But I purposely don't hear from the godbrothers like I said. So all I see is the body, which we are not supposed to see if one is a pure devotee. So I don't get it. I don't see what devotees see in him, but I have never heard from him. I don't listen to his classes, I don't hear his bhajans, I don't hear his morning walks, but I do have one question that has yet to be answered.
                          What is the story with him having his form as a manjari painted by Syamarani dd? I went to her website about a year ago and read how he told her to look inside her heart and see his form as a gopi and paint it, if I remember correctly. How was she empowered to do it? Can she paint everybody's form? Did he empower her for one painting of him alone? Can she only paint his form because they both are such elevated souls? This is a serious question and I don't seem to get any replies to it. I heard that his form as a gopi is plastered at the entrances to all of his temples and maybe somebody else's?
                          I'm not trying to be tricky I really just want to know. Can't anybody help me? The last disciple of his denied this altogether. Have I really heard wrong?
                          I don't mean to offend anyone in the Gaudiya Math by saying I will not hear from them. That is just my loyalty to Srila Prabhupada and nothing personal against anyone. And I read Our Gurus: One In Siddhanta really briefly about a week ago when I got a hold of a copy, since it was just a conversation between Srila Prabhupada and some other devotees.
                          That's more than I should have said perhaps, I don't mean to offend any devotees.

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