I know I've done this before but I keep on forgetting and I forgot.

topic posted Sun, December 9, 2007 - 12:53 PM by  Unsubscribed
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I know I should do more than apologize to the Gaudiya Math. But it's hard, I have my false ego in the way, and I have somehow or other many times falsely come to the conclusion that it is ok to do nothing but think bad about the devotees inside. I have done this before, realized my mistake, only to fall back down into material consciousness again.
I can't ignore what my spiritual master has said, and he is either Srila Prabhupada or else coming in the disciplic succesion from Srila Prabhupada himself, of ISKCON, and so I am an ISKCON devotee. But at the same time, I have seen the Gaudiya Math Deities and devotees, and I should be welcoming them as devotees, not seeing them as non-devotees trying to take away devotees from Srila Prabhupada's movement.
I don't know what to do about this problem. How can I say GM devotees can come into ISKCON centers knowing that they might have the mentality of cruising for new devotees to take over to their gurus? All I can hope to remember is to try to pay a lot more respect to them from now on, along with all the devotees I have offended countlessly.
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  • It was very popular in the early late 70's and early 80's for bashing vaishnava gurus specially those teachers that don't belong to ISKCON.
    I personally had avoided any contact with any vaishnava devotees who were not devotess of the spiritual teacher that I've followed.
    Then it changed (by the late 90's), based from my encounters of other devotees in the streets or in the airports when I travelled. At one time I was surprised when one Iskcon devotee even give praises to my chosen guru after he saw a booklet my 8 year old daughter was carrying. From that time on I gradually realize that all vaisnahvas whatever affiiliates they have share a common desire. It is hard enought to practice spiritual life in the material world, how much more within the same general community of vaishnavas/devotess. I am glad, personally those days are over. Of course there are still differences but Ive notice that the old practices are gone and these differences are being smooth out in a more rational manner and spiritual etiquette are being followed. I recently have opened up again after years of practiicing my devotional life with just me and my family with out any association with any other devotees. Am important thing sicne I still considered myself in the learning process or stage in my spiritual life.
    And yes after all these years, I still consider myself a Caotholic also. My best wishes to all.
    • Unsu...
       
      as much as i adore all the branches of gaudiya matha sangas, i still can't stand the thought of any devotees boycotting ISCKON. i don't care if some offensive non-devotee posers have at times acted as leaders of ISCKON, they are mute to me. Just like i live in the western world or wherever, despite the fact that the government is monopolizing places, i live here so i must be here. just the same, i am and will always be ISCKON, it is my home, so therefore, i go and put flowers on Prabhupada's toes because he is my home. I would never try and take anyone away from ISCKON. however, if they follow me to see an advanced Indian pure devotee Guru too that's good too. and if some of his other disciples follow me over to come back to ISCKON thats great. i don't engage in ridiculous politics, only serve by example, taking the dust of any vaisnavas that are getting Krsna's mercy.
      • Unsu...
         
        I still have this offensive mentality against the devotees. I don't know what to do. I was in maya today and was watching tv and this show came on about Catholic and Presbeterian churches. Everyone is trying to do the best they can. The Catholic church has traditions that are very very old, and why wouldn't Krishna listen to the poor devotees inside.
        If we want Krishna we will go to Him, and if not, we might just fade away into the brahmajyoti after millions of painful existences in this material world. Only to become revived again because our nature is to serve. Krishna is very kind. And our gurus, who are self realized persons, are very dear to Him. If we please our gurus, and become dear to them, then Krishna will be pleased with us, because they are dear to Him.
        It hurts the devotees so much to see a fellow devotee, that they have performed so much devotional service with, get up and leave ISKCON to serve somewhere else. Why is Krishna any better one place than the other, unless someone prefers one guru over the other? Is one guru giving out something else that another is not? Then it would have to be a different kind of service, or a different kind of love of God. Maybe a different rasa, I don't know. These things are too high for me to think about.
        • A guru teaches in his own style and capacity and I do admit that it is one of the most important decision one has to make to jump start his spiritual quest which is to seek a bonafide teacher. Does not necessarily have to be a big institution or a big membership, it's how you progress in your spiritual life. Of course it is an individual endeavor but one has to check the teachings, if it jibes with shastra or scriptures and one has to pray with the lord within, the paramatma, a sure way for check and balance.
          I think the Catholic church to be in general has loss somehow it's parampara and along with it some of it's potency hence why we are searching outside it's perimeters right now. Again like you I still identify myself as catholic. Its just it got to institutionalize that the Holy Pope's selection has to be done in an election process which I think is happening right now in some of the vasihanava sects today. But it is still potent to some extend to certain individuals sicne it still teacher love for God in some degree. The bottom line is one has to seek and surrender to a living bonafide spiritual teacher and learn at his lotus feet, one of the very basic tenets of vaishnavism. Krishna will reveal Himself correspondingly to one's sincerity and capacity. And I think one's guru selection should be respected after all spritual life is base on one's free will, always have been.
          • I'll chip in my 2 cents.

            I think we should learn to discriminate based on the criteria in the sastra. Bhagavad Gita gives so many descriptions of what the qualities of an advanced devotee are. For example an advanced devotee is not interested in sense gratification. So we can see if a particular person is having symptoms of being very interested in sense gratification they are not very advanced. This is a general principle that we should learn to discriminate based on the scripture, and to do that we have to learn what the scripture says. Then we can give up this kind of superstitious fear based criteria for our actions. This to me is a key feature of Krsna consciousness, to understand the scripture and to act accordingly.

            I believe firmly that no one group has a monopoly on Krsna consciousness. Nor does belonging to any particular group "save one". One can be in really good association and not take advantage. Lord Caitanya had a servant at one point who fell in to maya even though he had Lord Caitanya's personal association. What better association could there be? Walking a Krsna conscious path has more to it than simply joining a particular group and doing what they say to do. In my view it is more important how we act in our life than what group we belong to or what guru we have.

            I think it is also a good thing to be honest about our situation. If we are still attached materially then it is not particularly relevant to us what our siddha deha is. It is simply an intellectual exercise. We should be honest about what our position is and not try to look for some simplistic way to pole vault ourselves on to the spiritual platform. If we are not following the basic principles then that is the first step we should aspire to. It has all been described nicely by Srila Rupa Gosvami what the steps of self realization are.

            First comes faith. Then comes good association. Then comes practicing the principles of devotional service. Then comes dropping off of material attachment and anarthas or unwanted things. It goes on from there but I think it is a very rare soul who has gone beyond this point. You can tell good association by the fact that they are very interested in hearing and chanting about Krsna. That is the most important thing to them. And also that they are following the regulative principles.

            OK I'll step off my soap box now. : )
            • as always makhancora prabhu, wow.

              beautifully stated and the 1st intelligent thing i have read here.

              thank u.

              hare krsna.
              • totally agrees with Makhanchor dasa posting and ggod advice, what me and CK would like to see is manu's intelligent input also.
                • i have no intelligent input ;)

                  i depend on others for this as i am a simple minded person i focus on my worship / sadhana etc. btw i meant no offense to u (sacred river) in my last comment :) i just like what makhancora prabhu wrote. i usually do. it is important for a vaisnava to dispell illusion.

                  but lets see if i have some input.....focus on simple things, not all the nonsense mentionned below. be a good human, serve others / and vaisnavas, chant hare krsna follow the path of principles laid down by the acaryas. we r hardly at the point of guessing our siddha deha etc.

                  i was not sure if i wanted to post anything here at all, as we all know who catholic krsna and their aliases are. and it is the same gripe as always, im not worthy, why cant i worship radharani, i want the dust of the devotees, come back to iskcon bla bla bla.... it is tired, annoying and not necessary spiritually. it is actually a waste of time.

                  and i do believe we should never feed the trolls.
              • Thanks Manu,

                I never know how what I say is going to be received. I just speak the truth as I understand it and sometimes people like it and sometimes people hate me for it.

                I just watched the latest Harry Potter movie last night( I know it's maya) and Serius Black makes a very Krsna conscious point. He says that we all have good and evil impulses or tendencies in us. That is not what makes us good or evil. it is what we choose to act on that makes us good or evil, or to what degree we are shaded of each.

                Personally I think everyone is a shade of grey. Krsna consciousness in my opinion is about aspiring to uplift oneself, to learn how to discriminate acts that are good to do from acts that are not good to do and then to raise our standard of behavior accordingly. Eventually as we become more and more freed from the undesirable actions our taste for hearing and chanting about Krsna becomes more and more alive.
                • 680818SB.MON Lectures 232984/530501
                  Janardana: She's saying she feels so far away from you when you are
                  not here.
                  Prabhupada: Oh, that you should not think. If... The words... There
                  are two conceptions: the physical conception and the vibration
                  conception. So physical conception is temporary. The vibration
                  conception is eternal. Just like we are enjoying or we are relishing
                  the vibration of Krsna's teachings. So by vibration He is present. As
                  soon as we chant Hare Krsna or chant Bhagavad-gita or Bhagavata, so He
                  is present immediately by His vibration. He's absolute. Therefore try
                  to remember His words of instruction; you'll not feel separation.
                  You'll feel that He is with you. So we should associate by the
                  vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association.
                  Sabdad anavrtti. By sound. Just like we are touching Krsna immediately
                  by sound. Sound vibration. So we should give more stress on the sound
                  vibration, either of Krsna or of the spiritual master. Then we'll feel
                  happy and no separation.
                • amen to serius black and that awesome point. i couldnt agree more (i forgive u for ur maya prabhu- as im most guilty of enjoying a good movie as well lol ;)

                  and srila prabhupada ki jai. he gave us all the lessons we need.


                  more than ill probably ever be able to fully appreciate, but we are indebted to him and his glorious message.

                  and i like what u write because it is common sense. krsna conscious common sense. it appeals to me and to my sense of reason and logic.- one of the greatest pujaris i kno (who trained me a long time ago) gave me that advice when i was first a pujari. she said, always use common sense in deity worship to please krsna and u will never make mistakes. it was simple, but it has helped me more than anything else.



                  hare krsna!

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